bee
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Post by bee on May 17, 2015 18:57:24 GMT
I awoke from a vivid dream just now, somewhat after 4AM and raining. Will the real person please step forward as one person in particular had a myriad of different personality types, and yes it fairly closely resembled a real life character/s I knew. So which was the real one? None, all are just in another rich make believe story but because there's a character with many faces in each story it's somewhat easier to see the ficticiousness behind each face. What feeling was really strong though was each different face or character in every role was presented to be enjoyed as a finely made and (real?) life movie, no different really to the believability that Clint Eastwood was really a Dirty Harry. Adyashanti describes it as "not to be suckered in by it, not to fall prey to the belief". I have long suspected that Charlie Sheen got caught or entangled in the tapestry of the make believe character in Two and a Half Men. Real pity as I used to really enjoy that show with him as the main character. So the underlying feeling of the dream was that all characters and roles in life are but a dream, and they are here to be enjoyed, even the percieved bad bits. No different to any movie as the storylines by their nature usually fluctuate between the bad and good scenes. So my saying of 'love your life' I should maybe add 'just don't get suckered in by it'.  |
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tony
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Post by tony on May 18, 2015 7:36:39 GMT
bee, your dream and comments remind me of a Zen Master's story: he had dreamed of being a butterfly, but when he woke up he wondered whether he was a butterfly dreaming to be a man or a man who dreamed he was a butterfly. It's a koan (a public case in the Zen tradition) to be resolved. Any further comments?
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bee
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Post by bee on May 19, 2015 8:34:30 GMT
It happens, though often fleetingly, I have the awareness that there is nothing but a sort of a pureness of an unrealised dormant form, or energy potential, that for want of better words, morphs into What Is we know as life.
The interesting aspect to this awareness of a me though is it feels like the aware whole senses in certain occassions that it is also the other parts or realms of life and there are these momentary splits in the dream revealing just a dream and on rarer occassions experienced gaps, where this life as it's known to awareness posing as this egoic self, is not the only concurrent one playing out and being experienced now.
The feeling is strong then that awareness is buying less solidly into just a me only story as an isolated all aloneness, while in fact there are infinitesimal dream-dreams and dream-lives all in Now. And awareness is every one of them but seems to be unaware it is so.
It's a little like a peeping behind or beyond the mirror where awareness is blinded by the reflection, and sees only its owned, and therefore its own, form of itself.
Awareness can be so fooled and I see it can also be quite blind - a mother knows her own children well? Yes, better than others? Well yes.
Are we sure that anyone even really knows themself, or what they are?
When I was around twelve I was fairly tall as I eventually grew to 6'2". So for a little fun I put on one of my mum's dresses complete with high heels, a wig, hat, gloves, purse, and of course her deep red lipstick and make up. I then knocked on the front door at home and when mother opened it I asked her in a nice make believe girls voice, could I please see Barry and then answered also some of her questions.
Well, she was flabergasted, who was this woman calling on her young son? She had no idea it was her young son.
No, it's not the egoic self or the story that got tricked it was awareness itself. So I see many instances where awareness indulges in a sort of monogamous relationship with its idea of itself, but sometimes the door cracks open a little and ... well, awareness aka the egoic mind cannot quite comprehend what is the trueness of reality. I have the sense that awareness has entered into its own agreement to stay set into just one view of itself as this particular avatar for its own identification. But the unravelling of this creeps in through many dreams where reality as we think we know it, is very often turned inside out.
Those who have set out on a seeking journey have had countless instances where their belief in a monogamous type relationship with the idea of themself has been partly seen as a little suspect, because who then are all these other me's when I am abruptly awakened?
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tony
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Post by tony on May 20, 2015 13:43:22 GMT
Kolomo, in regard to "...it is not enough just to read, contemplate or meditate or write...", I agree. It is not a matter of changing or improving one's 'self'. None of those 'activities' by and of themselves will affect transformative changes. The only effective way is to Meditate. That means to Surrender Moment to Moment (Now) as if there is no one who is surrendering. It means to have Great Faith, that Reality, God (What Is) is unfolding precisely as it does in each moment.
We then become the unfolding itself. It was the discovery of the ox-herder when he returned back to the market place: this ordinary life, with all its pleasures and pain, highs and lows, clarity and confusion, is It. The difference (after catching the ox) was that he no longer thought or believed he was the unique center of the world.
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Post by angelssix on Jun 10, 2015 15:07:13 GMT
I don't know, you guys, this as all goes around in circles. I think Adyshanti is phony. He makes no sense. I've listened a few times and that guy is either very clever or he's a nut bag. Help me out here.
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tony
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Post by tony on Jun 11, 2015 5:33:21 GMT
We need to remind ourselves not to believe in anything anyone says and act from that belief. That includes the most famous ones (Jesus, Gautama, Isaac newton, Einstein, William Shakespeare, etc.). The Zen anecdote 'If you see the Buddha on the road, slay the Buddha' means don't believe and get attached to that belief. Who knows where people come from or what's behind what they say. However, this applies not only to spiritual teachers/teachings but to any thing that we hear in our ordinary life (e.g. advertisements, politicians, opinions, etc.).
What's important to see is that the mechanism of belief itself is the thing to watch out for. We, as humans, can get easily fooled into believing what we like to hear or not believing what we don't like to hear. Therefore if someone's ideas don't make sense, we can choose to (i) dismiss them, assuming they are nonsensical (ii) assume that we have not understood or are unable to understand at this time and go back to them at a later time (iii) ask someone else to explain them in the hope of understanding. In my view, best to take what we hear as preliminary pending further investigation. After all, the Wright brothers were called nutters for suggesting that a machine could fly, and Galileo nearly lost his life for suggesting another perspective which went against the prevailing Earth-centered view.
_()_
Tony
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Kolomo
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Post by Kolomo on Jun 12, 2015 0:21:44 GMT
I’m glad you asked that question- it inspired me to write something. My ‘bs’ meter is always on full alert when I listen or read anyone. A lot of times I start to read a book only to get a few pages and toss it. I don’t know how anybody can actually listen to a full interview of ‘Buddha at the Gas Pump’. I had similar feelings when I first encountered Adyshanti. Why would do you need to change your name anyway? Now I can only tell you what my ears hear. I think Adyshanti is a true master. One of the few people I will listen to one YouTube. He is very articulate but what I like most is that he doesn't play any games about awakening or enlightenment. He speaks from actually going through a lengthy struggle only to find that the whole ordeal is nothing special. It is just what you already are and always have been. I have found with myself that there are times when I go back a reread or re-listen to something I get it. In Adyshanti’s case, I pretty much find a deep truth in almost everything he says. Although I think he lives in my neck of the woods, I have no desire to see him. If I had a choice between visiting him or say Sailor Bob I defiantly see Bob except its hard for me to understand his aussie accent. (I just thought I throw that in there for you-down under people) Of course, I am just speaking for myself.
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tony
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Post by tony on Jun 13, 2015 5:32:33 GMT
Kolomo, if you come to Australia I will drive you down to see Sailor Bob and hopefully he'll take the time to repeat what he says to make it understandable for you...You'll find (as I did and do) that his simplicity, focus on a few pointers and willingness to answer questions will make it worthwhile. Just a suggestion for your next holidays!! He's in his 80s, so don't take too long!
In regard to that 'trust' one develops for people, by which we regard them as genuine, I think that's dependent on having 'ears to hear' what is being conveyed through words and concepts as much as on the mastery of the one saying them. The 'turning word' of the Zen Master said at the right moment can trigger an awakening in someone and not even register on another. So in the story of the monk asking the Master 'what's enlightenment?', the answer 'pour me some tea' resulted in his awakening.
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Kolomo
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Post by Kolomo on Jun 14, 2015 16:57:16 GMT
Thanks for the kind offer. My daughter has been in New Zealand for the past several months. The thought crossed my mind to visit her and go a bit farther to Australia but she is coming back soon.
If anyone is interested I could post the authors that I like, but as you mentioned, what resonates for one person may not work well for another.
Nisargadatta said, “Once you realize that the road is the goal and that you are always on the road, not to reach a goal, but to enjoy its beauty and its wisdom, life ceases to be a task and becomes natural and simple.”
So I suppose we each must cut our own path not as a means to and end but rather to see the means is the end - I’m not sure that make a lot of sense.
As a bit of irony, I noticed that I expressed criticism of Adyshanti changing his name while I go by kolomo here. But don't you think kolomo has a nicer ring to it than kevin? and its kind of humorous as well - so its ok to change your name as long as you don't let mom know.
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tony
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Post by tony on Jun 15, 2015 3:14:07 GMT
If you can't make it to see Sailor Bob, I would recommend Wayne Liquorman, closer home (near Los Angeles). Straight, uncompromising and immensely loving.
I think it would be of interest to exchange our chosen authors/teachers and perhaps say which have had a major impact on our views, and understanding. I'll put something together shortly.
In regard to the path we are on, A subtle but important distinction is to say that it's at the same time both the means and the end. It's Now, in our breathing or in putting a foot in front of the other, irrespective of where we are heading. That is another way to describe Non-duality and the related 'technologies', Meditation and/or Contemplation.
An American spiritual teacher, once known as Da Free John, changed his name a dozen times over the years. It reflected the change in his own development and capacity to express his revelations. Yes, Kolomo has a more esoteric ring to it!
_()_
Tony
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Post by angelssix on Jun 15, 2015 21:19:31 GMT
I'm glad you say don't pay attention to him because I won't. His eyes are funny, phony like and I think he's making a lot of money being phony. But why does he say anything at all?
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Kolomo
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Post by Kolomo on Jun 15, 2015 23:11:40 GMT
I think it is great that you have your eye out for what smells funny. Have you ever read any of Jed McKenna’s books? Whether he is a poser cashing in or not I can’t tell you, but I find his book hilarious and a lot of it resonates with me- although as with all these people I just take what makes sense and toss the rest. For myself I really have no great desire to meet any so called teacher. In fact I kinda feel the whole enlightenment deal is a bit of a fantasy. But I do place a lot of emphasis on finding my own path to what resontates as truth and working to deal with things from this understanding
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Post by angelssix on Jun 17, 2015 0:38:46 GMT
Hey thanks K., your comment probably best describes my journey in what it's all about and in seeking the truth
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Kolomo
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Post by Kolomo on Jun 21, 2015 15:59:51 GMT
When I happened upon this video I thought to post as I feel Spira masterfully articulates what we were discussing. My only thought that I may add is what appears as phenomena; the changing forms, is no different than awareness. It is just that awareness becomes aware through this apparent function of mind that can only perceives forms by way of conceptualizing them in time and space. Perhaps there is a much better way of saying this.
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Post by angelssix on Jun 23, 2015 0:41:27 GMT
I watched the video and I don't think he's genuine either. Talks in circles. Contradicts himself. That's 2 down for me.
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