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Post by clouddust on Mar 20, 2015 0:13:22 GMT
Hello and welcome Angelssix.
You'll like it here because you can express and exchange. You'll find it interesting. May I ask you a question: What are you looking for if you only believe in 'self,' which is what you said before. Is your 'self,' not enough?
We'll get a debate going, huh?
Welcome again, nice to see a new person coming in.
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tony
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Post by tony on Mar 20, 2015 2:02:25 GMT
Bee, some comments on your post
"What is watching me, contains me, but is not limited to that me. So the watcher is far more than me, but does me know the watcher is there also, watching me? Is me only aware of itself as the me, or is it aware of more than just a me? If it is aware of more can that awareness then be just me, or is that awareness then something more than a me?" and connected to the questions you were asking in an earlier post
"But in any moment is It [Awareness] awake or asleep? (Mostly asleep); Does It identify Itself as the unit or any situation? (Usually yes); When life gets somewhat more demanding does it become easier for awareness to buy into that story? (Most certainly). and "Isn't that what Awareness does with this real life play?"
I suggest that Sailor Bob's simple and very direct "what's wrong with this Moment, if you don't think about it?" resolves such questions. All differences, comparisons, descriptions, etc. come up or are formulated in the 'think about it' mode. No problem with that (very useful when you need to catch a plane, or plan holidays) but not so useful to see 'things as-it-is', i.e. whatever they are before thought gives it a label and turns them into an object of perception. Thinking about it, conceptualizing, trying to 'understand' puts us in a perspective from which it is difficult to see. Eventually there is the discovery of 'just being' as the only satisfying mode of understanding.
Then Awareness is not an object/thing that is either awake or asleep or does any thing: It just Is. What is called 'me' is seen as an impermanent sense of identity, coming and going in each instant. Like everything else that appears. That is symbolized by another name given to the Buddha, the 'Tathagata': thus come, thus gone.
_()_
Tony
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bee
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Post by bee on Mar 20, 2015 20:53:12 GMT
angelssix "Maybe I should begin with sharing some experiences." Whatever you are happy to share here is very welcome as everyone can often learn from others. Also, if you then have questions regarding any of your experiences, ask away, as in the asking the answer already lies therein, embedded a little deeper Other's answers are often not the correct ones for you but may help unearth your own answer that you may just be looking for. That of course is assuming you are looking for some answers.  |
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Kolomo
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Post by Kolomo on Mar 22, 2015 1:09:50 GMT
Wow, great question and great counter question. For now just wanted to check in and let you know there is no shame is starting a new thread. For some reason this thread is the thread of choice and it snakes through all sorts of topics, which is fine but you could start a new one and maybe call it ‘whats behind the curtain’ or ‘who put me in this box’ or whatever. And angel6 if you want you could register then I think the create thread button is accessible. Note- I move your post to the folder 'What's beyond the walls'
wait correction - I just logged out and the create thread button is accessible for guest as well but if you register anyway then we will up to very impressive 7 members (although one of them, Lester, like our discussion about the world, is not really real)
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Post by clouddust on Mar 22, 2015 12:43:31 GMT
Hey Kolomo, good idea. Ok, I'll try it. CD |
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Post by clouddust on Mar 22, 2015 13:00:38 GMT
Kolomo, Help! I tried to start a new category called, "What's beyond the walls," with a description of discussing existence but I think it went into a sub-board/category and I'm not sure how to bring it back to a separate, 'on its own' category. Do you know how to do it? CD |
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Kolomo
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Post by Kolomo on Mar 22, 2015 15:48:03 GMT
Wow, You discovered something I didn't know existed existed,I guess sub boards was beyond my wall. As far as I am concerned this thing has way too may features I was just thinking to start a new topic within this board. When you first click the folder with the title 'different paths' (which I should probably change the name of) there is a create thread button on the top right. If you don't mind, I will try to do that now and possibly move over some post. Hopefully I wont fudge it - kevin
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Post by angelssix on Mar 22, 2015 16:10:18 GMT
Hi all. Do we have a new category. sounds good. be back.
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Post by clouddust on Mar 22, 2015 16:41:35 GMT
Thanks Kolomo, for the help. It's a good idea to start a new one, and I'm sure we'll all have some input. Maybe even AZ will have something to say. CD |
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Post by angelsix on May 14, 2015 0:19:41 GMT
Hi and I'd like to start posting more that I have some time. Just left one at another post. Ok, here's a situation. Last week someone robbed me. I was ****** mad and can't let go of it. Help me know how to surrender it. I thought I'd leave this experience under this heading because it seemed surrender was being discussed. |
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tony
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Post by tony on May 14, 2015 13:04:33 GMT
Good to hear again from you Angelsix.
As you know everyone has had or will have what we call a bad experience. Most (if not all) of us would have had quite a few events that caused strife in our lives. I can count them in the dozens!
In approaching the 'how to surrender' question, it's useful to put context around events and circumstances. In my experience and understanding, things and events happen; we get both the 'good' days and the 'bad' days; in other words shit happens! However, when a particular event is processed by our 'self' it is judged to be favourable, acceptable, pleasant or the opposite. For example had it been a good situation (like winning the lottery) and you got happy, would you be willing to surrender that feeling? That leads to the question ‘who [I/me] wants to surrender (or not)’? If there was no ‘who’ then an event is simply that, something that happens. As soon as a ‘who’ appears then a certain value is placed on that happening: there is an acceptance or a rejection and anything in between.
When we see into that mechanism, how it plays out in our response to events, it makes it easier to let go of the impact the event has had. How it is received makes all the difference. The practice of Meditation, or any other practice that shows what the ‘self’ is up to, helps in developing an attitude to events that is free of judgement. Not easy at first, as it is not easy to turn the other cheek when you get slapped on the face.
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tony
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Post by tony on May 15, 2015 0:14:27 GMT
Another thought on 'surrender' and feeling ******* mad. That feeling also happens. The feeling itself is not the problem, but how I respond to it is. If I get attached to it and believe I am entitled to feel ******* mad, that it should not have happened to me, then I'm getting something out of it (e.g. emotional juice; righteous indignation, etc.). If I see it as something that happens (if not to me, then to others) then I 'suffer injustice', the equivalent of turning the other cheek. It's recognizing that I don't know why it happened to me, but it did (reality). That Acceptance (not condoning the act) makes it easier to surrender the feeling.
_()_
Tony
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bee
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Post by bee on May 15, 2015 14:26:14 GMT
Acceptance as Totality Is Everything in life as All is contained in It, All that we term good as well as bad.
But sometimes baby steps are needed first as condoning or overlooking the act is a somewhat easier task than either totally accepting or forgiving the act.
I see many parallels so sometimes I can imagine the similarity to climbing a ladder, if I can step onto the first run then the second and so on, it becomes a lot easier than trying to get to the top in just one step.
It's a learned ability to be able to just 'let go' of a troubling situation, so maybe surrendering and letting go are very similar.
Who of us can say they are not affected by any circumstances in life?
We are all affected aren't we, though to varying degrees?
Learning that it is possible to experience all feelings without any attached agony is one of life's lessons, maybe even the only lesson of life if we see our life that way.
When we look at our life we can see it is not possible to control many events outside of ourself, and sometimes we are also unable to control circumstances that we seem to be in full control of, in and for our own being, like for instance our health.
Being robbed is not easy to deal with, I know from personal experience as thieves broke into home last December and made off with over $20k of items and insurance only covered $6k.
My personal experience was, even though I did feel thoroughly dismayed with that invasion, I was also thankful they didn't do too much damage.
I noticed afterwards I was looking at the idea of taking in an unwanted dog as I always had dogs except for the past year after my beloved rottie passed.
Well it ended up that I now have taken in two unwanted mutts so they have some company and I have ended up the richer for it.
If it is possible to look for something brighter because of the robbery it helps.
In my case I knew it could have been worse so I had an unbelievable feeling of thankfullness for a few days. Actually that did quietly amaze me.
So my learning once again was that I hold the key to the way I feel regardless what is.
To follow up here's a little life story:
As I live on acreage the footpath is dirt and grass, no sealed footpath. Some young adults seemed to like trail bike riding along out the front, often after school hours and weekends, and because there was always a few they made a lot of noise and dust.
One afternoon I was backing out in my 4WD and one of the riders just missed slamming into the side of it. Well I was fairly cheesed off as this added to the other efdects they were causing. So I didn't feel good at all, as Tony said earlier I was righteous in feeling ****mad. I even had thoughts of stringing some cord accross the footpath, so that's what occurs when one indulges in taking a stand where the other (person or situation) is wrong.
I knew the peace to be found over this was however wholly contained within me, so upon relaxing and doing a part let go on the intensity I looked at myself when I was young with my first motor bike.
I could see that I would have absolutely loved having the ability to ride before I had a license and if I lived nearby to miles upon miles of wide natural footpaths it would have been heaven. So I not only softened but I then actually felt glad that they were getting enjoyment riding along the frontage of my property.
Guess what happened? Very shortly after I changed what I felt I was no longer reacting at all, and then the riders disappeared into thin air.
No idead at all what happened to them and they have never been back.
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Kolomo
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Post by Kolomo on May 16, 2015 19:24:03 GMT
Haven’t been writing much lately, just haven’t been inspired to. That is until I read this topic of feeling deep injustice. I have been going through a little turmoil myself at work. Now, I could relate the details but that would be just telling a story in my mind and end up giving it legs. In fact, each person involved in this situation could tell their story and make it sound perfectly reasonable. So for me, it has ended up being just a simple choice. Do I want to be further entangled in some story or do I want to choose freedom? Yes, it helps to know, even intellectually, that there really is no ‘I’ and that ‘I’ itself is a story that goes through different feelings at every turn and everyone is playing out their own story of ‘I’. Knowing that all these stories are spun out of nothingness on their own accord helps build compassion and love for me and all others involved. By understanding some simple obvious things it is easy to forgive and love. For me this is important in choosing freedom over entanglement.
It also seems to me that in our spiritual quest it is not enough just to read, contemplate or meditate or write. When any type of setback, affront or misfortune happens, as is guaranteed almost daily, there is the opportunity to practice freedom over a story. So, I say to myself, its okay to feel these injustices, but I am not going to entangle myself with them. I will move on moment to moment in freedom.
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bee
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Post by bee on May 17, 2015 4:13:21 GMT
"I have been going through a little turmoil myself at work. Now, I could relate the details but that would be just telling a story in my mind and end up giving it legs. In fact, each person involved in this situation could tell their story and make it sound perfectly reasonable."
kolomo maybe there is another way of looking at any percieved injustices....
And yes, this complex tapestry of life which includes all the many stories we and others weave, and in that very process of the weaving we often do find ourself, along with others, getting completly entangled.
All of these tapestries are so extremely rich in detail with all the hues, colours and luminosity of life and some turn out, in our judgement, to be lovely while others are considered to be quite horrid.
There really is nothing wrong at all while I am aware (and know) that I am the one weaving the richness of my own story into a fine tapestry, but only while I am able to stand back and view it as that, simply as a work of art.
But nevertheless, all these intricate and vivid tapestries are always still very real and not ever to be denied. Denial is the non-inclusion of what is and therefore, ulimately, it's the denial of self and Self.
Recall when we have made something, whether it be a painting, a garden, a knitted jumper, or a meal, and then someone has made a derogatory comment about it.
What is it that we tend to do?
We react to their words because we get caught up in the believability of those comments, and we believe they're describing what we have made is a reflection on what we are, and it's only possible because of our acceptance in the ownership of it.
If someone close to us has misfortune we also wear the brunt to varying degrees because of our ownership in that person.
While I can feel a certain sadness that events do happen as recently as they have in Nepal, I do not have anywhere near the same acute anguish I would have if a family member was involved.
The heartache only ever comes from our own entanglement in these tapestries we and others weave, when we mistakenly believe they shouldn't be or they are wrong, and we then try to disallow what is, which to a degree is also ourself.
At some point we realise that disallowing this 'Is-ness' of life is where all pain dwells.
To quote: "nothing is either good or bad, but thinking makes it so",as in new-borns everything just is, but with age it is quickly learnt that we can think that a lot of things, including people and also situations shouldn't be so.
Adyashanti says, 'Love' doesn't see 'This Moment' (my take - this life tapestry despite whose signatures are weaved into it) as being wrong, or a problem to be solved, regardless what 'It' contains.
Quote: "All that matters is what you're conscious of, that's all that matters".
And how do you know when you're in opposition to what is, or in harmony with what is?
It's always how you feel about it.
The following complement each other as the first video is descriptive of the taste of the unconditioned state and how you know you're not in opposition to what is, (which is always by the effect).
And kolomo I agree with both you and Adyashanti that we practice being in conscious harmony with what is, so the second video is describing how to practice this state.
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