bee
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Post by bee on Mar 25, 2015 8:24:07 GMT
I'll leave for a bit later on though to discuss what we feel about awareness then being awake or not to it is 'That'.
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Post by angelssix on Mar 25, 2015 16:48:48 GMT
Hi, it seems the conversation is going along. I'm aware all is changing, so as CD pointed out, what is not changing. It is what it is or it isn't. Is that it? I also think experience is personal, I know mine is, you may not have had the same life I have so you'll see things differently, but is there something like between us that is constant. Persistent. Bee and Tony you bring up a good point just clarify on what is all being experienced and why is MY experience to my benefit.
Should I be looking for what is between us and the same or should I be looking for the difference among us. What is the difference or the same. Sometimes I feel I am alone in the world and sometimes I feel like I'm part of something. Does that make sense.
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bee
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Post by bee on Mar 26, 2015 12:13:26 GMT
"It is what it is or it isn't. Is that it? "
In the changing landscape of all daily life, that change "Is". This cannot be argued with as a spiritual truth.
That "Is" is masked by the movement or happenings, so It is largely unnoticed as everyone really is occupied with what we term life.
We can get closer to this "Is" by quieting ourselves such as in a meditative state, and realise we are not just a solitary human form at all.
But this "Isness" can always be found by a fairly easy method or practice. And 'It' can be found when we are fully enveloped in the movement we term everday life.
So far I have always noticed 'It Is' always there exactly the same as before, as a constant amid a world of change and I do not need to meditate to be aware and embrace It. However, It Is so easy to miss and not notice; a little like the soft breath or a resting heartbeat.
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tony
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Post by tony on Mar 27, 2015 3:39:36 GMT
There is no need to meditate, but it is essential to Meditate. To meditate is an activity that I choose to engage in (say, for the purpose of getting enlightened), to Meditate happens because of What I am, already Enlightened. It's not a play on words.
In Meditation there is no place to go to or time to be in: both place and time happen Here and Now. As long as I think I need to get enlightened, I can't, not in a million years. Enlightenment is there when there is no 'I' that wants it.
_()_
Tony
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Post by angelssix on Mar 27, 2015 17:07:13 GMT
thanks bee, tony, I think I got it now but how can you be rid of the very thing 'I' is. I mean thought still happens, physical functions ie, hunger, bathroom etc still happen, the world is still going on outside. I got the centering thing in the now, the present, but the 'I' is still here.
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bee
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Post by bee on Mar 27, 2015 21:41:35 GMT
Yes the 'I' is still there and so are your family and friends. Everything in the world is still there, the I being not really too different to everything else in that it arises and exists only for a limited period.
If you have ever been able to see yourself, more exactly your unit, from a distance it then appears not dissimilar to all others, the awareness starts to wake to that everything is taking place within, sort of I am all that space.
'The Now'...
'The Present', maybe a better word.
Yes, That which always Is, unchanging, ever present, is 'The Present'.
No matter what it is we are thinking or doing we are always doing it only ever now, in 'The Present'.
Even when we are looking back to yesterday or to years ago, and also when we make plans for the future, it is always being done only in 'The Present'.
'It Is' always the 'One' common thing of all life, of all existance, 'It Is' so much in front of us, in our face, that we do not see 'It'.
How often are we acutely aware of of this "One" exact moment?
Because that's All there Is.
If there wasn't this Present, this One moment, we woudn't exist.
So then we shift awareness to this moment of our everyday life, to 'This Present', and have a guess what we find?
We find the gift, the present.
How acutely we are able to 'Be' in 'The Present' determines the beauty of this gift, which is 'Our' present.
When we are totally captivated by an experience, the beauty of a child, or a thunderstorm, a kind word, a lover's embrace, we are so captivated because we have, in that moment, forgotten we are this body unit, we have allowed ourself to be 'The Present'.
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tony
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Post by tony on Mar 27, 2015 21:59:47 GMT
Angelsix, as far as I know and experience, the sense of 'me' does not disappear.
That sense is part and parcel of 'you' as a functioning sentient being. Rocks, trees and primitive forms of life (as far as we know) have not developed an 'ego-self'. It is a distinctive characteristic of 'sentient' beings, certainly of human beings. It is a useful and necessary psychic center, so when I am called 'Tony', I answer. However, as we have been talking about, it is not substantial: it is not 'fixed' and permanent. In the spectrum of Consciousness, it's a step in the ladder, a perspective from which the vast majority of humans see the world.
Through investigation (what I have been calling Meditation) it is found that there is a 'You', a larger, boundless sense of Identity. It has been labelled Self, Big Mind, Christ/Buddha/Krishna Consciousness, Formless, What Is, All There Is, God. It cannot be described because It is beyond description in terms of form. It can only be pointed to. It is and 'acts as' all forms (sentient and not-sentient), including Awareness of forms. It is the wordless feeling-sense of 'greater than' what I (sense of self) am.
Therefore, 'you' cannot get rid of 'you'. Rather, it is seen that You includes and transcends 'you'. Big Mind includes small mind. That's the meaning of non-duality.
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Tony
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Post by angelssix on Mar 28, 2015 2:15:58 GMT
Tony, bee, I find it hard to follow because there are some word insertions that are confusing. I, me, You, you. My question would be that in meditation, I let go of "I", but the greater sense of me, remains? This is the sense of a presence, an outer observation, that I feel when creating music or word composition, etc.
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bee
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Post by bee on Mar 28, 2015 10:06:30 GMT
What can I say to you?
Your sense of presence is all in your doing or really I should say your being, because when you sense this state you, (same meaning here as your I), are not in the way of your awareness being awake to a much larger field that everything else including the you (the I) exists as part also.
And your "sense of a presence, an outer observation" Is where all creativity takes place.
The egoic body mind or the I thinks it is the creator of the music or the words but they have already been created by your aspect of presence, and you (the I) are letting go of restrictions which is allowing that to happen or to be.
That's why I remarked "what can I say to you?" Your awareness is already awake to being It.
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Post by clouddust on Mar 28, 2015 11:58:48 GMT
Angels6,
Pardon me and I mean no disrespect, but you are confused because the language sounds circular with all the I's and Me's and You's. Right?
I've come to recently acknowledge God as separate from us and,though my experience is very similar to Bee and Tony, it is with one exception and that is our separation from a superior being. Viewed this way, the self continues to exist as a created being with all the capabilities of imagination and will. Does that make sense?
I know you can call it what you want, as Tony points out, but I see it as Non-duality because we are one with this superior being.
Let me know what you think.
CD
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Kolomo
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Post by Kolomo on Mar 30, 2015 14:21:34 GMT
CD - I just read a little bit about Thomas Keating, as one of the architects of 'Centering Prayer'. I thought it might be very related to what you are expressing
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Post by clouddust on Mar 30, 2015 16:11:42 GMT
Hello Kolomo,
In a hurry here, but I just saw your response and wanted to say, "Yes, I tried that." and it was very powerful. Had an experience that I'll share later. Thanks, CD |
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Kolomo
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Post by Kolomo on Apr 1, 2015 14:30:09 GMT
Hi CD -I was thinking that you might want to start a thread in the ‘practices’ folder about 'Centering Prayer'. I'd like to hear more about it. I am always struck on how we all are pointing to the same thing but through different understandings. I came across this image and it struck me that it could easily be interpreted as a non-dual message. We can spend our lives seeking but, in the end, attainment is an impossibility; there is no doer to attain anything. It comes to you, you cannot go to It.  |
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Post by angelssix on Apr 1, 2015 15:17:20 GMT
Tony, bee, yes, all changes, personally, globally, universally. Yes, I know that. But the other day, I encountered something so simple almost missed it. Found myself in a bad situation but was able to get outside of the doom by removing the "I from my experience and vocabulary when describing it. Removing "I" was not easy but just kept focus on moment, one moment and all changed.
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Kolomo
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Post by Kolomo on Apr 1, 2015 17:17:23 GMT
Wow, that’s really good. I gotta remember to do that more often, or at least try to.
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