tony
Administrator
Posts: 172 
|
Post by tony on Oct 27, 2015 7:14:50 GMT
bee, nicely said. Is your wise owl friend advising you? I had a dog (a Maremma breed) who showed me, by direct demonstration, what it's like to love/be loved unconditionally. It feels as if that love has remained as fresh as it was when he was alive. I discovered that Love is not an emotion, but an essence. Since then I felt that Wisdom and Love are two aspects of That One/Many No-thing we always, already are (otherwise how could we know, recognize It?).
Since then I have allowed for (woken up to) the paradoxical condition where I AM both That (No-thing) and this (form). 'That' embraces, includes and lives as 'this', which comes in and out of dreaming, identifying and objectifying, knows happiness and sorrow, is born and dies. They are not two, even though it looks like that. That condition is also known as Acceptance.
So, even when we feel we are deeply stuck in a fixed self, as egoic separateness, in the hell of loneliness and alienation, lost, confused and searching for rest, That can never be away from us, because It Is us (closer than the jugular vein). It's like: the ocean and the waves; white light and the spectrum of colours; the gold in all gold ornaments; the hand and the fingers; the body and all its parts. The Creator is the Created. Not one, not two.
|
|
tony
Administrator
Posts: 172
|
Post by tony on Nov 1, 2015 12:24:57 GMT
Angelsix, you cannot afford to believe anything I or anybody says. Once we start to believe in what others say, we lose our capacity for direct experience, direct knowing. As far as I am concerned, that applies to any source: Gautama Buddha, Jesus Christ, Nisargadatta Maharaji, Adyashanti, the Pope, the Dalai Lama, etc. and any one who teaches and preaches. Instead of 'believing' though, we can listen without preconceived ideas and take what is said on as a possible model, as preliminary knowledge. Only 'you' (whatever that is) can then accept whether it is true or false. Even when 'you' accept someone's views as true, how do you really know? You could be mistaken. The old analogy is that you cannot learn how to swim from a book, you need to go in and do it. You cannot know the sweetness of sugar from someone's description, you need to taste it. On the other hand, if you really trust someone, knowing that they want the best for you and they are honest and reliable, then simply accepting what they say can work (we did this with our parents until a certain age).
This (what and how do we know) is a critical issue when endeavouring to investigate for ourselves. A couple of examples: Aristotle, the great Greek philosopher/scientist came to the conclusion that two objects of different weights will fall at different speeds. The heavier one would fall to the ground first. That was accepted knowledge (everyone believed him without questioning) until Galileo, about 1,900 years later proved by a simple experiment that they fall at the same rate and hit the ground together. Same for Ptolemy's Earth-centered model. When Galileo tried to tell the Church people that the Earth moved around the Sun, he was made to recant, on penalty of excommunication or worse. Another example is 'believing' in the discoveries of modern science. I have never seen an atom, but I am told that it is 99% empty space. I choose to accept the science even though I am made up of trillions of atoms and I don't look empty!
Statements like "the Creator is the Created" and 'not one, not two' do not compute. They appear nonsensical or at best paradoxical. That is so when seen through the 'eyes of the flesh' and the 'eyes of the mind', i.e. understanding based on what I can see (touch, hear, etc.) and what I can work out by thinking about it (intellectual, conceptual understanding). Adequate to send a man to the moon, but inadequate to know 'yourself', what you are really made of, your true nature. It's like using a fork to eat soup. A Geiger counter to detect ghosts. Wrong tools.
We need to use the 'eye of the spirit' or approaches adequate to the task of tackling questions beyond body/mind consciousness. Traditionally these have been: Love and Worship, Self-less Service, Esoteric Knowledge. They are all well known and each has its own specific tools of research (e.g. Prayer, Meditation, Contemplation, dedicate one's life for others' benefit, etc.). When we adopt and get proficient with any of those tools, it's like diving in and swimming, or tasting the sugar to know first hand what it tastes like. Then "the Creator is the Created" will make perfect sense*.
Don't believe any of it, but you could assume that I am not playing word games or pulling your leg, and hear it!
*(Does the light create the infinite spectrum of colours, or are the colours already inherently part of the light?)
|
|
|
|
Post by forum22015 on Dec 21, 2015 1:41:17 GMT
Hi Everyone,
I think I posted yesterday or the day before but I can't find it. If anyone else sees it can you tell me where it is? Until then, I guess I will just post here instead of changing the topic on a thread which is what i must be doing. Let me know. Thanks, Arlene
|
|
tony
Administrator
Posts: 172
|
Post by tony on Dec 22, 2015 12:02:02 GMT
Hello Arlene, your last post was in the 'greetings group' under "the different paths" heading. I'm posting something there in reply to yours.
|
|
|
|
Post by forum22015 on Dec 23, 2015 1:19:26 GMT
Hi Tony,
Can't find that page thread what does it look like?
I'm like a newbie still so If i don't see it on a list I can't find it.
So I need to click through things in order. And that order is?........ sorry to be such a PIA!
Love, a
|
|
Kolomo
Administrator
Posts: 182
|
Post by Kolomo on Dec 23, 2015 4:41:11 GMT
Ya, this board is confusing. I saw on other boards they have just one general topic with various threads. I was thinking of possibly migrating all threads into one topic but only if there is a consensus.
First click -- the different paths various topics then greetings group
|
|
tony
Administrator
Posts: 172
|
Post by tony on Dec 24, 2015 11:23:08 GMT
Hi everyone, I would like to wish you all a great Christmas and a Happy New Year. I hope you enjoyed the exchange of views and insights during the year as much as I did. The enjoyment was in the good will we have shown towards each other as we pursued our inquiry into "We are all It". Special thanks to Kolomo for keeping the forum going and for his impartiality and common sense in responding.
All the best!
_()_
Tony
|
|
|
|
Post by forum22015 on Dec 26, 2015 0:05:19 GMT
Hi Bee
I hope you are able to find this post. I just wanted to say to your post very deep Bee, Very Deep. Namaste A
|
|
|
|
Post by forum22015 on Dec 26, 2015 0:26:46 GMT
Hi, It seems to me we are in conversation in the dropping by thread page 4. I wanted to wish everyone a Happy holiday. Here's hoping my link is still available: www.americangreetings.com/ecards/christmas/blessings-from-above/pn/3337625Post it in your browser and see my wishes for you. To Angelsix just wondering if you do or know Inquiry, drop a question into the silence and wait for the answer to come back to you. Don't try to answer it. I've been blown away by some of the vehicles the answer has come in, like a special glove on a street or a piece of mail that stunned me. You could try this with something said here that sounds fantastic or outrages to you and see what the answer is. Huh? Let me know if you try and what your answer is. I'm realizing why it was so difficult to join in here when I was coming from the forum. The speech.text there was very brief and to the point. While here it is very dense and filled with deep meaning. Quite a heavy group we have here. Namaste, Arlene |
|
Kolomo
Administrator
Posts: 182
|
Post by Kolomo on Dec 26, 2015 17:03:32 GMT
Very kind of you Tony but I am not sure I have been that impartial. I felt that I probably pushed against others a few times with my comments. Perhaps, expressing a particular view can become a sensitive issue because it can rub against a cherished belief. So how to get around this issue? Or, is it even an issue; just something I am imagining? But at any rate I hope we continue expressing what we discover or uncover.
|
|
|
|
Post by forum22015 on Jan 16, 2016 4:30:09 GMT
Hi Group,
Thinking about how to join in again. Can't possibly read all this in-depth dialogue. Instead I think I will continue to post here in the Dropping by thread and bring up my own curiosity or question which I have two right now. Since my last posting no more phenomena except Sat Shree meditation which I'll explain later.
I have two questions and I'm thinking of asking Adya these two If I can finally call-in and speak to him online. I find it very difficult since his face is a few inches from mine. Anyway here they are:
Question 1
How is it that the Non-traditional Non-duality which has been going on for about twenty years is still largely unknown to the public. Even a person like Oprah who is obviously into this with her teacher Eckhart(sp) never mentions the word Non-duality or the movement as it is growing. For the media monguls this is big news for them if they knew the extent of it.
Now I say the non-traditional Non-duality for those who have arrived in it outside of Buddhism which has been going on for thousands of years and we are a mix of both groups.
As far as I can tell the Nonduality movement which has other names of course emerged outside of the traditions but also connects to the traditions at the same time. Is this the cover. No distinction made? SatShree calls it the New Consciousness which is descending on the planet.
Maybe I'll just ask this one question now and not muddy up the exchange by adding a second question.
Happy & Fruit-full wishes for you,
Arlene
|
|
Kolomo
Administrator
Posts: 182
|
Post by Kolomo on Jan 18, 2016 16:18:30 GMT
Hope you are enjoying and thanks for the question. I feel your question is a good one. I want to respond but I think I need to give it a little more thought before I post.
|
|
tony
Administrator
Posts: 172
|
Post by tony on Jan 28, 2016 12:57:29 GMT
Hello everyone, a belated happy new year and letting you know that I'm still around! I had prepared a post sometime in mid January which I thought I had posted, but somehow it did not get sent. It's taken 15 odd days to get the energy to re-enter the forum.
I recall I wanted to contribute further to the discussion on teachers. Hope to get back to that topic soon. However, here are some thoughts on Arlene's question: "How is it that the Non-traditional Non-duality which has been going on for about twenty years is still largely unknown to the public."
Non-duality, i.e. not two, in the sense of the realization that there is only One No-thing going on, has been the fundamental discovery of the great religious traditions and of the Perennial Philosophy (going back to the Hindu Rishis 4,000 years ago). According to commentary by leading mystics and teachers (e.g. Ken Wilber, David Hawkins and many others) that discovery is known or realized only by very few, hence the name esoteric. For example, the number of those alive who have realized it is statistically insignificant (something like 0.000001%). Those who are able to express it and teach it so as to reach all of us seekers is even less. Over the millennia there have been thousands, but still very few. At this stage of mankind's evolution, the transition from homo sapiens to homo spiritus has barely started. Mankind's primary mode of understanding Reality is still in dualistic terms: I and other. Reason, logic, deduction and empirical evidence are still the primary mode of understanding. The analogy is of the leap in understanding that the Earth goes around the Sun, not vice-versa. That is relatively recent in historical terms.
So, not surprising that the realization "There is only Consciousness, Consciousness is all there is", let alone the appreciation of what that sentence points to, is largely unknown. Even those of us known as 'seekers' of Truth, God, etc. are relatively few compared to the mass of humanity. As it has taken this long for Life to evolve into sentient beings, it may take a very long time yet for the majority to realize their innate Oneness/Divinity.
|
|
Kolomo
Administrator
Posts: 182
|
Post by Kolomo on Feb 13, 2016 15:59:38 GMT
I don’t think this thing is dead. I thoroughly enjoy all the people and discussions we had on this site. But for some reason, partly because of stupid work commitments, I have just not had the right mojo to post.
Maybe a quick comment regarding this topic; maybe all the spiritual traditions and religions are essentially pointing to a ‘non-duality’ but we are stuck in place of thinking there is something to be learned or gained.
|
|
|
|
Post by forum22015 on Feb 18, 2016 3:24:27 GMT
I guess I see the non-duality event different. Yes it has a long history and I am suspecting it is the Prime Spirituality on this planet and others if there are others. We have historical records as proof in the Ch'an/Zen era that this has been going on for a millennial but a quickening has happened. In the traditions this movement is minimalized as not extraordinary at all and there is no spiritual movement. Just the same ole' same ole' That is how I hear what Tony is saying. How can one say there are only a minority of participants when we don't even know how many of us there are? The group is safely hidden within traditions or circled around individual teachers with more coming everyday. If this is all so, how can such a monumental movement be unknown to the public? It's like a tapestry is thrown over us. Even the well known like Oprah, never says the word Nonduality though she has been in this movement for years. What about her teacher non-traditionalist Eckhart Tolle on the best seller list and nobody has put his book together with the hundreds of other authors. There isn't even a genre for nonduality in the book stores. Amazon puts all the authors under Eastern Religion. What about all the sudden Awakenings of many outside of the traditions? Where an awakening just happens. You just have to listen to Buddha at the Gas Pump to learn about this. There must be at least 300 teachers at this point for all the extraordinary awakenings. Lastly, all you have to do is put in the word nonduality and Google it to see how big the topic is. Isn't everybody on the internet? Yet, still nonduality is unknown.
Part of this perspective I realized recently was that I am from the Hippie movement of the sixties in Haight Ashbury. People came from all over the world to walk down Haight St and took our pictures. Now, though this was mainly a US movement that spread to Europe I imagine, The heart of it was here. So I've been waiting since 2011 for this thing that I am involved within every atom in my body to be recognized. So all of us can come together but as far as I can see there is an intention to keep this whole thing "WithIn the Silence" so to speak. The mystery of all this mesmerizes me. Isn't there anyone else in the world that sees this?
Namaste,
Arlene
ors
|
|
