bee
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Post by bee on Apr 20, 2015 13:47:50 GMT
Yes, It Is what I understand and sense
Love Is All
Complete
No separation
All inclusive
Everything, every animal, plant, dirt and rock, every person, the saint and the murderer, every thought and emotion, they are All included.
Another name for God, Absolute (Acceptance), Love.
Humans see the imperfections of life but the Absolute is free from imperfection so therein lies the quandary.
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Kolomo
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Post by Kolomo on Apr 20, 2015 14:58:24 GMT
I like how this conversation is going. If I may add my two bits; If you look deeply within yourself, minus all the static of the mind, you can go back and sense a certain consciousness or vibration that is at the essence of everything we sense or feel. If we can dwell in this, what is there not to love?
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tony
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Post by tony on Apr 22, 2015 9:49:07 GMT
Bee, there is no difference between the Absolute and humans. That is the essence of Non-duality. It's both together, 'not one, not two'.
The point of view from which most humans see life, however, is the limited one of the separate sense of self. That forms their understanding of reality. From that perspective life can only be seen as imperfect, as this and that, good and bad, 'me' and 'you', perceived in sequential time/space. No problem, other than the suffering that comes with it.
Once that point of view is transcended, the perspective of Love comes in or becomes more predominant and the ego is Accepted/Forgiven ["forgive them, because they know not"] as part of what happens in this Present Moment. What looked like imperfections is seen as the natural movement of Life (St. Julienne's "All is well and all will be well in all manner of things").
_()_
Tony
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bee
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Post by bee on Apr 22, 2015 12:29:07 GMT
"Bee, there is no difference between the Absolute and humans".
But that is the quandary most humans live in this life as we do not trust the apparent imperfections, which is synonymous with trusting life.
(Editing the above as it reads back incorrectly owing to my lack of mastery of the language and being human, full of perceived imperfections).
But that is the quandary we as our human form live in this life, as we do not trust all the 'apparent' imperfections, which is identical with NOT trusting life, ( life being the Absolute which of course also includes ourselves ).
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tony
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Post by tony on Apr 23, 2015 5:57:14 GMT
bee, the edits show 'understanding' of what the quandary is about.
If we have never heard of such things (i.e. that there is a quandary, etc.) we would go on unaware of that and live life as 'normal' humans do [there will always be the poor] feeling the suffering but not realizing where it comes from. However, once it has been heard and there is an impulse to follow up on that message, then the spiritual life starts in earnest. At first there is blind seeking, spurred by suffering. Then we enter into right suffering when we see that "we do not trust the apparent imperfections".
That is always a discovery by an individual, not by the mass of humanity. The unlearning and the retraining starts (a Teacher is found, Scriptures start to make sense, etc.), which can take an indefinite amount of time, depending on where one is at, or what one has become in terms of conscious evolution. However, once it starts, one is " in the tiger's mouth": can't escape the journey towards Understanding. I always get a chuckle remembering Wayne Liquorman's analogy: it's like a big gorilla wanting to have sex with you. You are not done until it's done with you! You are not pushing, IT is pulling you.
_()_
Tony
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bee
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Post by bee on Apr 24, 2015 20:42:32 GMT
Well the gorilla's certainly not finished with me yet, I just wish I could see It though, bloody good at camouflage I must admit.
I believe most of us acknowledge It's there masquerading as life, even if it's only a fleeting awareness, but I feel there are not many who do not think they can either outsmart or overpower It.
It's definitely not invisible though, It's just such an absolute master of disguise that we do not recognise It even while we are held in Its grip. However, I think most do attribute Its pulling to countless external factors, (which funnily enough aren't external at all as they are still 'It')
One aspect I do wonder about though is why are we released so easily when we leave our physical, either in deep meditation or death? Or, when we enter into the realm of acceptance so deeply that It cannot be described any other way than love?
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Kolomo
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Post by Kolomo on Apr 25, 2015 13:48:02 GMT
I was thinking this quote from Nisargadatta relates.
“Once you realize that the road is the goal and that you are always on the road, not to reach a goal, but to enjoy its beauty and its wisdom, life ceases to be a task and becomes natural and simple, in itself an ecstasy.”
There is no truth to get to, the struggles are already the truth.
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bee
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Post by bee on Apr 25, 2015 14:21:04 GMT
We all seem to get caught in the destination of life, but how few do realise that? Once there where is the movement? How often have we experienced that upon achieving the goal, following that rainbow to its end, where is that pot of gold we believed was there?
How many of us have heard children complain when on a car trip? Are we there yet?
In fact though do we ever 'get there'?
Is there such a thing in this life as 'the destination'?
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bee
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Post by bee on Apr 25, 2015 16:09:13 GMT
Living the journey of life, as I see It, is being present. It is quite simply, living the present moment fully.
What does this mean to me?
I believe I live in the present, but I ask myself how fully am I in the present?
I have found it takes courage, faith, and trust to fully live It.
In the moment, which is right now, how fully am I in It?
Am I immersed in It completely?
If not, why not?
Sometimes...
in this moment that can be a very difficult question to answer truthfully.
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tony
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Post by tony on Apr 26, 2015 1:35:12 GMT
Living in the Present Moment fully doesn't need effort, it's always happening. This is so because It includes asking the question "Am I immersed in It completely?". Likewise, there is no Truth to get to, as that Truth includes the doubts, delusion and confusion that arise as part of being a human being. Enlightenment comes when those delusions, etc. are seen and Accepted [this means allowed to be there without judgment, good or bad]. Another way of putting it is: no delusions, no enlightenment (no dreaming, no awakening).
Compassion and Forgiveness arise when it is seen that we all (including Gautama and Jesus) have delusions.
_()_
Tony
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Post by clouddust on Apr 29, 2015 0:28:23 GMT
Hi Tony, (and all)
What delusions did Gautama and Jesus have?
We may be in good company - you know?
CD
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Post by clouddust on Apr 30, 2015 1:17:32 GMT
Hi Tony,
In response to your previous statement (a few posts back) that hate is opposite of love, I must ask if this is a dualistic thought since opposites are separate and separateness indicates more than one.
CD
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tony
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Post by tony on Apr 30, 2015 6:09:11 GMT
Clouddust, I'm about to respond to your earlier question about delusions (re. Gautama and Jesus). A quick reply on your last post: love vs. hate is the same as good vs. bad, right vs. wrong, etc. One implies the other. Yes, that is the dualistic mind seeing two 'things' as if they are objectively separate. We can also see hot and cold as two distinct values, but they are just different descriptions of the one thing: temperature.
The point is that we cannot pick one out (as I thought you did with "God is love and we love because he loved us first") while not also mentioning where its supposed opposite originates. The Non-dual view says that there is only Love [Goodness,Beauty,Truth] and that Love includes all those emotions. Those emotions come and go as our responses according to circumstances. Love does not change but manifests in the movement of Creation. That movement is reflected in the emotions, which need to be Accepted [neither accepted nor rejected] as part of our reality. I think bee raised the question of humans seeing imperfections in what goes on around them. From the perspective of Love, one can see Perfection in the imperfections.
_()_
Tony
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Post by clouddust on May 1, 2015 0:16:34 GMT
Hi Tony and all,
Yes, love encompasses all. Love is all. Love is creation. But I do not see it as, " one implies the other." Love cannot imply Hate. It is opposite, as you stated in a previous post. Yes, they can both be called emotions, etc., but only one is God. Love. I think it's a hard concept/reality to grasp, to believe, to accept. Humans look for acceptance; but God offers love because God is love. It's not separate from us, but unifies us because it's ours for the asking.
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bee
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Post by bee on May 1, 2015 21:50:37 GMT
Love doesn't imply hate but includes hate, there is a difference
Also love as I have used the word is not referring to an emotion but to 'All Inclusiveness'.
It's a good analogy for God... Oneness.
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