tony
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Post by tony on Jul 17, 2015 13:25:07 GMT
Some comments on what I saw in the movie. While it's good to watch it from the beginning (the initial description of space not fit for humans is relevant), the scene that I think is central and most meaningful is when the main character (Dr Ryan Stone, played by Sandra Bullock) is about to give up getting back to Earth. She realizes that she is going to 'die today' and shuts down life support. Then she has a vision of her former, now dead, colleague (Matt Kowalsky, played by George Clooney) telling her that the only thing one can do is 'live life', put her feet 'on the ground' and just get on with it. She wakes up and takes action to get to a space station from which she could just possibly get back to Earth. As she does that, she is awake and alive, with memories of the small things (e.g. the red shoes) associated with her child (who died very young) and her love for her.
In the context of our discussions, we also need to come back to Earth, to our very real life, as lived moment to moment, from birth to death, with all its ups and downs and imperfections, to discover our Love for It. Space (the Absolute, the No-thing, etc.) is the silent background to what the characters do. It is unforgiving of each and every form that appears in it. It swallows me/us/all up in an instant. At the same time, Space is All There Is: it contains and Is all the forms being born and dying and living their life in the immediacy of their experience. Whether we, in a human form, have a conceptual understanding of It or not. Liberation/Enlightenment is the dying to, the surrender to the Unknown, That which contains us and all we do. We are all It!
So like Dr Stone, the immediacy of death is the call to living in this very moment. The smallest things in life are then meaningful: her baby's red shoes, our breath, what we say to someone, when we eat breakfast, the heartburst and the heartbreak, the glory of the lilies in the field. The very doing of what we do. Just as in the Zen story of the man hanging by a small branch over a cliff, with a tiger above and one below, about to drop any second, who sees a ripe strawberry hanging nearby. He grabs it and eats it!
Therefore, there is no one who is enlightened, but only enlightened actions (done selflessly in the moment).
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tony
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Post by tony on Sept 29, 2015 2:54:57 GMT
One of my favourite speakers on Non-duality is Wayne Liquorman. He is a sage, that is, a live spokesman of the Truth ["The Saint is a man who disciplines his ego. The Sage is a man who rids himself of his ego." Wei Wu Wei]. He is in the lineage of the Advaita (Non-dual, not two) tradition, which started in India with the Rishis (around 4,000 BC) and includes Shankara, Patanjali, Ramana, Nisargadatta, Ramesh Balsekar, Wei Wu Wei, Gangaji and many others. This is his way to express the non-dual experience:
I am
I am the peace that surpasses all understanding.
I am the movement of the wind.
I am your breath.
I am the Acceptance of all that is.
I am the heat of the Sun on your cold skin.
I am your anger.
I am the crash of surf on the shore.
I am the silent scream.
I am your lover's touch.
I am the movement of day into night.
I am the unity and the separation.
I am all that ever was and ever will be.
I am what you are.
Even though you try to find me I am already here.
The search is over before it begins.
Arlene, the last two lines are meant for you!
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tony
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Post by tony on Oct 2, 2015 5:45:29 GMT
and another expression of non-duality from another modern sage. There is nothing theoretical or conceptual in the way it is put, not is it sentimental. These sages are not asking us to 'believe' in what they say (because they say it), but offer it as a reminder of the Truth/What Is in one's everyday life (the ox-herder back in the market place, chopping wood and carrying water).
"Do not seek love, do not look for the light, but be it, offer it; the joy of loving another is infinitely greater than the joy of fearfully clinging to another's love, for deep down you know it is only an illusion that what you have always longed for could ever have come from outside of you.
You are the One; you have always been the One. The search ends exactly where it began - in presence."
- Jeff Foster
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Post by clouddust on Oct 3, 2015 13:34:41 GMT
Clouddust, regarding your request on “how you specifically have died to self; what has been unlearned or learned and how self has been denied? “, Kolomo thought it would be a good idea to open a new thread on personal experiences. So I have posted this under the heading ‘Experiences and reflections on our individual journeys’. Perhaps best to start with this: I die to self by accepting ‘self’ as part of what happens. That can only happen Now, in this Present Moment. It is clear that I can’t live other than Now: it is impossible to live a second ago or a second in the future. Past, present and future exist as thought forms arising Now. Another way of describing dying to self is to say that ‘self’ is no longer my primary point of view, the one exclusive and defining aspect of What I Am; my Identity. What is experienced with senses and mind (the unit’s ongoing activity) together with what cannot be known with senses and mind make up the Totality of my current experience. That is the state of Meditation. It’s because we pay exclusive attention to the senses and mind (especially the thought stream) that we ‘forget’ that Presence which is always there but is simply Silence/Awareness/Emptiness. Once seen, it cannot be forgotten, although there is a constant temptation to get lost in the world of mind/senses. The practice of Meditation is the natural returning to the Non-duality of ‘That&this’. Dying to self is not denying/rejecting self, but transcending and including it. It becomes impersonal, like watching a stage play. When I do that, I am still conscious of my body/mind: I attend to its needs; I enjoy a good meal; lovemaking; a chat with friends; I feel both joy and sadness, happiness and unhappiness as they come and go; past hurts and unfinished emotional business still come up to be looked at, now with Compassion, shining a light onto them; the temptation to judge others arises but is seen and let go of: it’s my past karmic life catching up in my present experience of it. As it is Accepted it becomes right suffering (without complaints). At the same time, Silence/Awareness/Emptiness is the Source/Background to all that activity. I can relate some experiences I had over the years, which gave me a taste of Non-duality. Rather than go into details (I can do that at another time), I can just say that they demonstrated that What I Am is greater than just the body/mind dimension. Good to hear from everyone on experiences, insights and reflections during your journey so far. _()_ Tony Hello Tony, An old post but it's good to hear a description and I'd like to respond . Dying to self is putting our desires, needs and wants last. Regarding others more important than ourselves. Hard to do. I don't know how to transcend self while including it or how to die to self and include it. To me, this makes no sense. Only when trust or focus on the one who transcends us, can we ever hope to deny our physical bodies from wants of this world. |
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tony
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Post by tony on Oct 8, 2015 2:22:57 GMT
Clouddust (and everyone), it took a while to get back on this topic of 'dying to self'. Obviously of interest, as you managed to find it again!
Going back to those early discussions, prompts me to make some comments. Because of the nature of what we talk about, each topic links to every other topic. The main threads that Kolomo set up at the very beginning are still valid guidelines for ongoing exploration. We have gone far and wide and deep. I enjoy and benefit from the interaction, partly for the pleasure of dealing with such matters, partly as it pushes me to find new and hopefully clearer ways of expression and partly for the joy of sharing our experiences and points of view.
I think we have managed to stay open to this approach where there is a dialogue rather than a final answer. This is important especially where our points of view, perspectives, and 'languaging' are markedly different.
So, back to 'dying to self'. We probably have a different understanding of what the word means. What phenomenon or experience does it refer to? Is it a substantial thing, or imagined? A 'who' or a 'what'? Something that is born and dies? Once we know that, 'dying to it' may also have other meanings, e.g. getting rid of it? Overcoming it? Forgetting it? Is denying the same as dying to?
Are these the right questions to ask? and who is asking them?
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tony
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Post by tony on Mar 3, 2016 6:33:04 GMT
A brief but meaningful experience yesterday browsing through a bookshop. I opened a book on various quotes and this one struck me: "Life is the art of drawing without an eraser". As in previous occasions, the impact was at the intuitive level, as strong in its meaning as the first time I came across Sailor Bob's "what's wrong with this moment, if you don't think about it".
Both point to experiential reality, this instant of experience-ing, doing without a doer, which does not have to be intellectualized, prior to conceptual understanding. No need to bring in any idea of what I am, of a deity, of an external agent (a Jesus, a Buddha, a sage, etc.). THIS is IT!
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Kolomo
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Post by Kolomo on Mar 3, 2016 15:47:44 GMT
nice! thanks for sharing
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bee
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Post by bee on Apr 21, 2016 13:01:19 GMT
Tony, too many parallels to count-
"Sit back and enjoy the ride"
from Gravity, aka Life
"One hell of a ride"
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tony
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Post by tony on Apr 22, 2016 0:14:18 GMT
Yes, all circumstances and events are instances/parallels of Life happening. I remember writing something about the impact that Gravity had on me at first and second viewing. That part where your quote comes from I think contains the essence of the movie.
We all can relate, I'm sure, to circumstances where we thought 'this is a tough one...', 'how am I going to survive...', 'It's getting too much for me...' and other life-is-difficult scenarios. It can certainly feel like "One hell of a ride". Then (as in the movie), out of the depths of you, there is the discovery of how precious each moment is, how the small details of life are important (her daughter's red shoes), and one spontaneously springs into action even if survival seems impossible. It becomes possible because one stops thinking and just does, becomes the doing without the doer (non-doing). In that 'just doing' is the essence of Life.
The Zen tradition has a few stories that point to 'sit back and enjoy the ride'. The well known one is of the fellow who is being chased by the tiger and runs up to the edge of a cliff. Just before the tiger gets him, he jumps and as he falls grabs a shrub growing on the side. When he looks down he sees another tiger waiting for him to fall. Caught between danger from above and below, he notices a blackberry growing from the shrub. He reaches out to pick it and then eats it enjoying its juicy flavour. No need to say whether he survives or not! Another image is that of the man who is in front of the firing squad. As they aim, ready to fire, he notices that his watch tells a different time than a clock up on the wall. He takes care to adjust his watch to match the clock.
At any point in time, a tiger or a bullet can end this individual life. It's meant to end so one has really no choice but to live each moment! To quote Shunryu Suzuki: "you find perfection in life's imperfections".
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bee
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Post by bee on Apr 22, 2016 20:51:31 GMT
One of the strongest realisations was when they were floating in space and Clooney, being in effect such a wise clown because that's generally what more experienced types do when they have an apprentice in tow, was admiring and remarking on the beauty from their vantage point such as a glorious sunrise over earth.
Not only were they both floating in space as was their station, and the junk, but also the earth.
This hit home, the earth was no different to Clooney and Bullock, they were all existing in space. Easier to see from that perspective, a little harder to notice the same here where we are all at the mercy of gravity.
It is a great movie and it had me on the edge of the seat.
Space - the final frontier(Star Trek), or is it?
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tony
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Post by tony on Jun 16, 2016 5:06:47 GMT
Hi Angelsix, it looks to me like my way of putting things, of expressing what I know, doesn't quite gel with you. Fair enough. People can be at odds in communicating (it happens all the time). I suggest though after saying something like "this just makes no sense" you add the following: 'to me'. By doing that it emphasizes the fact that communication is both ways. For example, I can be less than clear (no doubt) and/or you may just not get it (possibly). By the way, I can be just as confused without having some funny stuff (I had plenty of it in my younger days!).
In regard to your point "how can you separate your thought into what is being intellectualized and what is conceptual? and how can you not think about the moment you're in." My answer is Meditate. We had a few posts on that topic recently and I suggest that you have a quick read of them if you wish.
In a nutshell, it is a matter of direct experience in Meditation that in this moment, and every moment, there is no need to think about the moment. It happens whether you think about it or not. In fact, if you think about it you miss it! That is what the statement "What is wrong with Right Now, if you don't think about it!?" is pointing to. It is possible to be in a place that is beyond thinking.
Thoughts just arise, that is, thinking happens, but so do breathing, heart beating, talking, walking, sleeping and every other activity: but [this can blow your mind without needing a weed] there is no separate 'I' that does any of them.
Having said all that it's possible that I am talking nonsense again!
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