Kolomo
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Post by Kolomo on Nov 25, 2015 5:11:50 GMT
I thought to revise this
Douglas Harding - I didn't really get the whole headless thing at first but what a novel and insightful way to express that we are awareness. His writing is lively and entertaining
Jed McKenna - He is a fictional character but a powerful, entertaining writer. His books had a great effect in changing my outlook on what enlightenment or truth realization is. But as he often mentions his books are just the first step.
Wei Wu Wei - Definitely continues as my all time favorite. I found his books nearly incomprehensible at first and now I often have to reread a passage several times before it starts to resonate but I find his pointers direct and powerful.
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Post by clouddust on Nov 28, 2015 12:24:39 GMT
Hi Kolomo,
Thanks for starting this heading, I think it will be a great resource and clarifier for many discussions. I'd have to say my all time favorite contemporary person, from which I learn, is Ravi Zacharias, an Indian born educator. Ever heard of him? |
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Kolomo
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Post by Kolomo on Nov 29, 2015 15:44:04 GMT
My above post was written a bit off the cuff. I started looking over some Zen text I haven’t read in a long time. I was amazed how past master like Lin Chi and Huang Po sound just like the modern ‘non dual’ ones. Of course, I thought to myself, these traditions have a lot of value but it still seems to me that for those of us that are a bit disenfranchised and question things, the path is ultimately a solo one.
But, no CD I am not familiar with Ravi Zacharias. I briefly looked over his quotes though. I noticed one quote disapproved of belief systems the exclude other belief systems while another quote was critical of other beliefs and seemed to say his approach was the correct one. So, at this point, I’m a little baffled.
Perhaps the trick to get in all these different perspectives is to see how they come together, how they ultimately express or point to the same 'no-thing'. I think the bottom line is that truth is beyond conceptual thinking. So in a sense we are separate from truth by the limited conceptual functionality of our mind. Would it then be plausible for me to say that Jesus is symbolic of the truth that mind is unable to grasp and the belief or faith in Him is an approach to harmonize or relate to truth? If so, then perhaps there is very little difference from the so called non-dual approach where it is pointed out in one way or another that truth cannot be conceptualized. The problem that I see is that we can become attached and sensitive to our particular approach and thereby end up conceptualizing a false notion of truth, when all the time truth is what we already are, what everything is. -- Just some impressions on the matter.
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Post by clouddust on Dec 6, 2015 12:27:18 GMT
Hi K, Thank you for checking out Ravi, and yes, I agree, we are separate from the truth. But truth is knowable to us. Ravi's style of teaching displays various viewpoints and asks... which one is accurate? The law of non-contradiction prohibits differences from sharing truth. There is only one. I've noticed, on my own journey, that not all 'pointing' is in the same direction and that is something Ravi reveals. The difference here is that we, as humans with limited comprehension, can seek all we want, but the truth seeks us. In Jesus' words, "I choose you." We humans have a natural hunger for this connection.
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Post by clouddust on Dec 8, 2015 11:09:51 GMT
Good Morning,
Just one more thought on this: I've checked out the people you mentioned and suddenly had a realization about the whole thing, (that's why I agreed with Angel's viewpoint to compare various teachers)... and that is, as it seems to me, there are two focuses. Only two. One - A person travels on their journey under their own power; their own understanding/comprehension and their own experience. Likewise this same person attempts to bring about change, transformation on their own - again within the confines of their own personal comprehension/experience. But the center is 'I.' Two - A person recognizes deficiency under their own power, understanding and comprehension and begins to recognize something greater than themselves. Through circumstances and trials it becomes clearer that an all powerful 'something else' is in control. This same person learns to deny self and rely on this that is greater than themselves. And the center becomes, 'I can't, but you can.' The center becomes God. And then, through, "Not my will, but your will be done," ... the journey begins. |
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Kolomo
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Post by Kolomo on Dec 12, 2015 0:33:06 GMT
Wow, that is a good question. I’m surprised no one has taken it on, although we kind of are by discussing different teachers. I imagine there are lots of angles to this question from scholarly/ technical views to more impressionistic/ intuitive ones. I have been too busy with work related stuff to give this a good thought but my overall impression is that at the essential core there is really very little difference. As mentioned here and many other places, once a teaching becomes organized into a religious system it almost always loses its essence in order to sustain the system. I think it is best to keep this in mind when listening to what religions propagate. It has often been pointed out that no one really knows what Jesus or Buddha really said or what really happened.
Now that I thought a little more about it, I would say the essential similarities (and I know this will not make any sense) has to do with a sort of recognition what the phrases ‘you are what you seek’, ‘form is emptiness’, ‘nothing exists’ are pointing to. I imagine in the Jesus tradition (I am no way an expert these are only my impressions) there is talk about loving your neighbor or enemy, that riches do not matter, being truly humble or, as mentioned before on this board, being childlike. Aren’t these teachings essentially saying that you as a conceptual being is a false view that is removed from the love of Jesus? You are asked to set aside these selfish tendencies whenever they arise and just know that you are the very same love as all creatures and things. So the phrase ‘you are what you seek’ implies that you already are the love of Jesus. Seeking is a form of greediness; you are trying to gain something when you already are loved (you are blind). All there is in fact is Jesus’s love, hence ‘form is emptiness' and 'nothing exist' in its own right. Ya, I know, I am probably butcher the bejesus out of the teachings but in this realm I think it is good to listen but you must see for yourself what is true. I think Krishnamurti said something like, 'The more enlightened one claims to be, the more they will lead you to falseness and suffering.' (I could not find the exact quote). For me I do not believe your going to hear a teaching or hear a bird chirp or a tile clang against the wall and all of a sudden become enlightened and enter some elevated state. That is just another state of delusion. Rather, I think it is a long, perhaps life long process, of seeing what is false and it is by no means easy but in the end it is ultimately effortless. BTW what is gitmo?
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Kolomo
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Post by Kolomo on Dec 20, 2015 13:48:08 GMT
I just happened to stumble upon this web site that I thought gave a nice synopsis of the different teachings- www.theself.com/ |
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Kolomo
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Post by Kolomo on Dec 22, 2015 16:18:20 GMT
I ran across two quotes that I thought were great synopsis of all religions and spirituality:
“Most religions focus on helping others and greeting suffering with love, which is the essence of enlightenment.” -Peter Taylor (Zen master in the Korean Jogye tradition)
And in another quote by Mother Teresa –
“Silence is the root of our union with God and with one another. In silence we are filled with the energy of God Himself that makes us do all things in joy. The more we receive in silent prayer, the more we can give in our active life”.
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Kolomo
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Posts: 182
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Post by Kolomo on Dec 27, 2015 17:04:52 GMT
It crossed my mind this morning that the comment ‘no one knows what Jesus or the Buddha said’ was a bit stark and insensitive. It is my intuitive belief that both teachings ultimately point to that which cannot be conceptualized. I assume that in both teachings there are volumes of scriptures that were recorded. But in my mind, what is written, organized and handed down are interpretations that often times are removed from their original essence. Surly no true teaching can be so harshly judgmental as to condemn others for not having similar beliefs. Where there is no such compassion it seems to me that the teaching is based in fear.
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Post by clouddust on Feb 1, 2016 17:23:44 GMT
Hi, K It's been a while but I'm back and checking in -
I disagree with your statement; but I'll ask a question before any further debate ensues ... question is: How many 'truths' are there?
I wait for your answer.
CD
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Kolomo
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Post by Kolomo on Feb 13, 2016 16:17:24 GMT
Ya, in a way, I disagree with what I said as well. It sure is not within my power to know what’s true or not.
If you don’t mind, I am going to take on what is considered a more radical view of your question ‘is there just one truth?’ I will respond by saying there is no truth or at least it is impossible for anyone to know.
And finally with regard to ‘different teachers’ with me they change all the time. I find that is often helpful to take a break from a teaching only to go back to it later and find its pointers more meaningful.
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Post by forum22015 on Feb 14, 2016 19:22:36 GMT
Hi Kolomo and CD?(OK),
I jumped into your thread because of the heading: "Different teachers' which is an experience I am examining, So this part of the discussion does not intersect nicely with your thought-full discussion. As a side note, there is a historical record of Jesus, just the facts, One book that I read which was written by a Lover of Jesus though he is at his root from Islam. He can interpret Aramaic (sp) and wanted to see what he could find out about Jesus, aside from the mystical writings. He wrote this book called,____________, Can't find the title right now but I will. There are many historical non-mystical writings about Jesus where you can read about the times and where there is an actual record.He is described in this book as a revolutionary of sorts.
Now back to my topic. I have had the experience lately of being drawn to three teachers. The prime for me will always be Adyashanti and I've grown spiritually because of him with actual experiences I had never encountered before. Because of Adya's popularity it is impossible to have a regular one-on-one relationship with him which I find I need for some reason. I believe the one-on-one moves you further and faster in spiritual growth for me.
I understand there are those who are different like Kolomo and maybe CD. Anyway, I already mentioned my knowing encounter with SatShree but before him I had been deciding on encountering Nirmala, such a heart centered teacher. I find them the safest to study with. I had already sent SatShree a Skype request with a donation. I was surprised not to hear from him and then he was off to India. Meanwhile I get a notice from Nirmala that he is offering a discounted introductory session, discount, something I can afford! Quite some time ago I checked off as a follower/ or like for Nirmala. By the way, he was the one who wrote the Fairytale of Infinite Being which I pasted into our old forum. So I signed up and we had a SKYPE session and I rescheduled with Nirmala for Feb 21st. Meanwhile I get a friend acceptance from SatShree, I think he is back from India.He does great talks on Youtube.
I have been examining my behavior in all this and just realized today that these events presented themselves to me rather than my chasing these situations. So I guess it's OK, though there is a value i have that chasing a bunch of teachers is not good which I'm trying to balance out: my conditioning versus the unexpected and responding.
The caution with non-heart cenetered teachers. They can really hurt if you think they are and you get a nasty surprise that they are not and you end up crying.
There is more going on with a change of schedule and tasks, one of my beloved cats is dying after 17 years. A skeleton of what he once was.I don't know if he will last the week. He has been such a loving buddy. I'll fill you in later what happens.
Meanwhile, I must admit I won't be a regular contributor though I probably would if there were more people, If participants would put up their pictures and also meet via video. I know this need to see you conflicts with your urges and that is that.
Namaste blessed ones,
Arlene
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Post by forum22015 on Feb 14, 2016 19:42:04 GMT
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Kolomo
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Post by Kolomo on Feb 16, 2016 2:10:00 GMT
It seems to me that we are all on our respective paths and for the few of us here this already is place for occasionally checking in, as with true friends that have no expectations for each other. Adyashanti is someone I listen to as well. In fact, a few months ago he was having a free satsang less than 3 miles from where I live but for some reason I was not motivated to attend. I believe that there is real value in meeting people face to face and a lot has been written about it. I know people use to go great distances just to be in the presence of a silent Ramana. But, I suppose for me, I look at all this as a long process of maturation. Nisargadatta said it’s really not about achieving anything but the process itself was already it. And Allan Watts said that our everyday consciousness where we go about thinking that we are not It, is exactly the consciousness that is It. There is absolutely no difference. I think it all boils down to a subtle shift in perspective of recognizing that you are not the body mind but in essence It. Everything else stays about the same. Oh well, there is a quick ramble. I’d be surprised if I don’t go back and do a little editing.
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Post by clouddust on Feb 17, 2016 0:13:42 GMT
Hello Forum and K: Nice to see you Forum and I do hope you participate more frequently. I love to read your journey adventures. But, (isn't there always a BUT?) I've detected in this post, that the truth has been confined to human perspective and understanding. How can there be more than one truth? How can the truth be anything less than the truth? For me, the truth is a person with a simple teaching, for all who have ears to hear and I don't have to wait to hear. It's always available, always with me and free. Free because I didn't pay the price. Know what I mean? Furthermore it's such a comfort; that after all the searching, my heart is at rest.
Hey, where's Angel6? |
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